Uhh, this will make zero sense if you have not seen the show. And probably 75% sense if you have.
I’m behind–I’ve only seen the first two episodes. I’ve not read the books, I doubt I will, and I don’t care if/how a reading of them could enrich my viewing experience. On one hand, the series is a compelling soap opera in that epic way–betrayals, political struggles, brutal people who adhere more to a way of life that resembles what I think of when I think of 16th century Europe.
On the other hand, it has this sleazy-sexy thing going on, and that’s not really my speed nowadays. I feel like I want 100% sleazy (“HELLO, MY NAME IS _PORN_”) or just dramz. Smooching ok, sexy ok too. Example: Game of Thrones brings you a political bride being raped and crying on her wedding night (probably a virgin, which does not make the rape “worse” but you can imagine that her terror and pain has a slightly different dimension than an experienced woman’s would). Sex is happening, but it’s sleazy. (I don’t feel like writing about rape fantasies and the validity thereof or the invaildity, but there, I have stuck my finger in the frosting of the rape fantasy cake. I SEE IT.)
Technically it passes the Bechdel Test, which of course does not make something FEMINIST or NOT, or GOOD or BAD, it just passes it. I’ll tell you what I remember in a minute and what my problem is with the conversation that made it pass. So, GoT is not 100% sausage party with ladies oohing and ahhing over awesomeness and the potential acquisition of said sausages.
Idly curious, I decided to have a quick look to see if people were discussing GoT in the context of the Bechdel Test and this is what I found. The timing is such that it seems to have been posted after the first episode. Granted, there is absolutely no commentary or discussion here to even get the tiniest pickax into, but I feel like the tone is “GAME OF THRONES GOTS LADIES INNIT.” Yeah, it does. Big whoop.
In the second episode, there is a real moment of two women talking, and not about dreamy princes or being cheated on by out of control rapscalliony husbands and also not just a giggling pile of whores. The bad lady is talking to the grumpy lady (yes I am going Honey Badger on this “review” with names and crap), who is waiting for her extremely concussed son to wake up, and the bad lady shares that she lost a child. It would be like a thing that two women who understand the pain of being mothers might discuss privately, but the Bad Lady is the reason the little boy is in the light coma. I got the sense she was just covering her ass should the child wake up, or perhaps it was just to show the audience that she is completely sociopathic (let me share your sadness after I pushed your kid out of a tower).
So, I get it, plot developments and any lady conversations are going to be in service of the intriguey politics. Again, nothing inherently wrong with this, it’s just not a show that is concerned about the formation/development of healthy female relationships, whereas I do feel like there is a lot of man-to-man, fully-clothed, not-talking-about “OOOH I DEW HOPE I CAN MARRY A DUCHESS” bonding moments. It’s a man’s world in the Game of Thrones. Could there be a fantasy historical-style epic that involved women being treated not as chattel, baby vessels, or long suffering wives, because Them’s How Things Were In The Olden Days? (There has to be a name for fantasies that appeal precisely because they are “allowed” to take place in a pre-feminist era.) Do I want to continue? Probably not.
Other Minor Quibbles:
* Titties titties LOADS of TITTAYS. Flapping up, flapping down, here’s some whores, here’s some more. Here’s some whores painted blue. Here’s someone’s brother pulling out her titties. Great. No manparts and not even total man butt, I don’t think. This is telling me that the show is not really for me, per se, because mix it up, for fuck’s sake, or just focus on the plot. Yes, I know who you are, HBO, and that you’re kind of a “big deal” around here. Whatever.
* More sleazy-sexy: incest plot. Yes, a guy fucking his sister is showing, not telling, A++ story writers. Again, though, I don’t think we’re going to be seeing a healthy sexual relationship anytime soon.
*HEY, blonde sad bride has a handmaiden who speaks her language, neat! Handmaiden was a baby whore. Well, ok. Oh! Then the interaction between these two women becomes strictly homoerotic as the ex-whore shows the new bride how to hump her husband entertainingly. I see now. Why does sad bride want to learn how to please this oafy gorilla, who seems pretty content with 30 seconds of doggystyle? Is she afraid he’s going to get tired of her and gut her and leave her in the desert? That’s fair. Is it because all bitches are secretly cock-gobbling maniacs inside, just waiting to be unleashed? Just tell us what her motivation is, please. I was hoping that she would have a relationship with her handmaiden, not because it would be titillating (which it would, COUGH) but because they actually seem to like each other.
*Stop punishing the spunky girl for being awesome.
If I quit this, I will say I will miss yelling “PUPPIES” at the screen whenever the pet Dire Wolves show up, especially as they are now grown and mauling people.
I would urge you to keep watching not because it’s going to get better in big steps but because I think that your questions about the blonde bride’s motivation will be answered. She’s making good use of her lessons and she’s using the results not just to keep from being killed.
I really enjoy it but I’m still not convinced it’s a very good show. I’ve heard the books are unquestionably amazing, though, so I’m going to give them a try.
I completely agree, for all the reasons you’ve given. I gave up after two episodes, because I strained my eyes rolling them so hard over the bride/babywhore scene. I can handle the gratuitous sex in other HBO shows, but I think in GoT it’s completely over the top at the expense of the story.
I found this review before it started (http://tv.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/arts/television/game-of-thrones-begins-sunday-on-hbo-review.html) that says all the creepy sex is there so wives and girlfriends will watch, which is completely insulting in itself, but I can see how they’ve made the connection. Thank god Doctor Who came back at the same time, because I just want to see a story.
Addendum: Thank fuck it doesn’t have vampires in it, at least.
HA, so the titties are for US. My bads. Interesting review, thanks.
I heard it referred to as “Dames Get Boned” and decided I could take a pass.
I just finished season 1 of Being Human (UK) and while it does have supernatural stuff, it also has a good plot and sex that doesn’t make me feel like a scumbag. If you’re looking for alternatives.
Being Human has been on my list for a while now! I had problems with my first download and kind of wandered off. Did you see Misfits (UK) as well? That was my crack.
I am laughing at Dames Get Boned. Urgh.
I know you say you won’t read the books, and you don’t have to, and I think the series should be able to stand on its own without knowledge of the books, BUT:
GRRM really delves into just how much feudal society/chivalry SUCKS ASS if you aren’t: a dude, rich, connected, and able bodied. A huge amount of his characters are women, not rich, not connected, not fully able bodied. And they suffer because of the system– which is often the system that they f ully support! And people walk around talking about how totes awesome knights are and how kings are important, and… for most people? Knights and kings are super bad news. The series is pretty critical of chivalry and The Patriarchy.
Like, it’s mentioned in the show that “rapists” (or did they say rapers? I forget) are given the option of castration or being sent to The Wall. But it soon becomes really clear that the only rapists being punished are low class dudes going after high class ladies; and that those ladies basically HAVE to cry rape if they are caught, or they will get punished, including possibly being killed for honor. Because knights and high class dudes go around raping women ALL THE TIME and nobody takes action against them, even though knights are SUPPOSED to protect the weak and not take advantage of them. And the common people? Are just like “aw fuck knights shit we are so boned” and “fucking kings and civil war, we are all going to starve to death, possibly after being raped and set on fire SADFACES ALL AROUND.”
HBO did add a lot of tits, especially where Tyrion is concerned. It’s mentioned in the book, when he shows up the first time, that he hasn’t had sex in a really REALLY long time. As much as he likes sex, because he is a little person, the ladies are not really lining up for him… despite his wealth and influence and power.
The books DO have some issues with Rampant Male Gaze, which really sucks, because there’s bits where I’m reading the text and thinking how totally great it is that here’s these books that have strong female characters and many essentially feminist messages smuggled in among dragons and knights and shit, and then BAM! Talk of perky nipples, or hand maidens sticking their perfumed fingers up some highborn lady’s cunt because apparently that is a prime place to put perfume and part of a hand maiden’s job involves genital handling or some bullshit like that. And that really kills the mood. But overall,it’s a very solid series.
To paraphrase a friend, hey! It’s set in the Middle Ages! They haven’t yet invented gunpowder, the steam engine, or the Missionary Position!
HAH!
I agree with everything Brigid said. Having read the books, I know where the story is going, and hope you stick with the show just for Dani’s storyline (which turns out to be painful and complicated and beautiful and powerful).
Brigid, thanks for all of that, really. I am not AGAINST reading it. Sometimes I just feel like blabbing about pop culture, but seriously (Moff’s Law and all that).
Lorena–that is very funny (your paraphrase). I did watch ep 3 and I do see Dani’s story turning a bit. It’s nice that she’s out of her brother’s clutches, anyhow.
I am always afraid to watch a show based on a series I love, but I approve heartily of the series so far (I have only seen the first two episodes). I will just go ahead and echo what has already been said: you should stick with it. Brigid hit the nail on the head with her comment. I love the books for all of the reasons she mentioned.
There is also a lot a lot a lot of alluding going on, much reference to the future which you wouldn’t pick up if you haven’t read the books yet. They are beating the “Winter is coming” thing to death though, and unnecessarily – pretty sure the viewing audience gets it that there may possibly be more meaning to that phrase than that it will be cold and snow a lot. Almost any long conversation between two of the major characters (and a lot of the shorter ones, there are a lot of one liners with more than apparent meaning) are actually about things that have happened but haven’t been talked about yet, or things that will happen but blah blah blah. Anyway, the books are huge, the show can’t possibly cover all of it, they are either trying to cram in more meaning or waving hello at people who have read the books.
So, you’ll probably have to watch all of it, read all the books, watch all of it again, read parts of the books again, and then it will make sense. So, eh, long story, but there is a reason why mean blond lady talked to grumpy lady about her dead kid, other than the sociopath thing. Because she isn’t really. There are only a handful of real solid sociopaths in the books, and only one has shown up so far, perhaps two…
Every time I watch that show I feel like I get sucker-punched. And then I can’t wait to do it again. I haven’t read the book but now I think I have to.
The only “fantasy historical-style epic” I can think of that kind of matches that criteria is the Dragon Age video game series. It is very heavy on the fantasy though (Lord of the Rings, style, with undead and dragons and whatnot); but it is sort of medieval Europe and there are lots of lady characters who are in positions of equal power.
Yeah, I couldn’t think of any either. They may be out there, though. I am not a fantasy expert by any stretch of the imagination. It’s funny how many “boundaries” get broken in video games. I loved Dragon Age and when Stark was speaking to the blacksmith/armory guy who was one of the king’s sons, I was like “Sell>dragon scales.”